MTNW and unread counts

In article ,
Lewis wrote:

> I have MTNW set to show killed threads, and yet when I see the unread
> count in the group list, and then open the group, the count drops by
> some number.
>
> For example, there were 5 messages in csmm and when I opened the group
> there were only 2 messages. 32 messages in csms, but only 23 when I
> actually opened the group.
>
> And I am seeing the killed messages.

Would it be that MTNW mark crossposts mark auto as read?

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 >> Stay informed about: MTNW and unread counts 

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In article ,
Lewis wrote:

> csma is the first group in my list

My condolences.

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JR
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In article ,
Lewis wrote:

> In article
> ,
> Jolly Roger wrote:
>
> > In article ,
> > Lewis wrote:
> >
> > > csma is the first group in my list
> >
> > My condolences.
>
> No no, not THAT csma, the other one. Apps. csmasswipes is LAST.
>
> Er.. I mean Advocacy. Damn tyops.

Ah - in that case, congratulations. : )

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JR
 >> Stay informed about: MTNW and unread counts 

In article ,
Lewis wrote:

> In article ,
> Indiana Joe wrote:
>
> > In article ,
> > Lewis wrote:
> >
> > > I have MTNW set to show killed threads, and yet when I see the unread
> > > count in the group list, and then open the group, the count drops by
> > > some number.
> >
> > The "Other Options" tab of the Edit News Servers box has an option for,
> > "Use accurate (but slow) article counts". Try checking it.
>
> Ah... That's sorted then.
>
> But there's one other thing that really annoys me about MTNW (and
> Firefox for that matter) is having to hunt through multiple menus just
> to find all the various options for preferences. Group prefs, Account
> Prefs, Server Prefs, and Application prefs are all completely separate.
> Makes finding setting nigh-impossible, and highly aggravating.

I agree. i have seen the like in other programs that appear to have
grown "organically". They make perfect sense to the creators, but seem
to be organized in a jumble.
 >> Stay informed about: MTNW and unread counts 

In article ,
Lewis wrote:

> I have MTNW set to show killed threads, and yet when I see the unread
> count in the group list, and then open the group, the count drops by
> some number.
>
> For example, there were 5 messages in csmm and when I opened the group
> there were only 2 messages. 32 messages in csms, but only 23 when I
> actually opened the group.
>
> And I am seeing the killed messages.

But aren't the killed messages already marked as read? They are here.

--
Paul Sture

Sue's OpenVMS bookmarks:
http://eisner.encompasserve.org/~sture/ovms-bookmarks.html
 >> Stay informed about: MTNW and unread counts 

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 >> Stay informed about: MTNW and unread counts 

In article ,
Lewis wrote:

> In article ,
> "P. Sture" wrote:
>
> > In article ,
> > Lewis wrote:
> >
> > > I have MTNW set to show killed threads, and yet when I see the unread
> > > count in the group list, and then open the group, the count drops by
> > > some number.
> > >
> > > For example, there were 5 messages in csmm and when I opened the group
> > > there were only 2 messages. 32 messages in csms, but only 23 when I
> > > actually opened the group.
> > >
> > > And I am seeing the killed messages.
> >
> > But aren't the killed messages already marked as read? They are here.
>
> Yes, they are marked as read, but in the specific example I gave there
> were 5 messages in csmm, but only 2 when I opened the group. Not of
> these were killed messages. Just the count is wrong.
>
> Turning on the slow article count seemed to alleviate this, but it is
> *very* slow, so I turned it off again. Now I just live with the
> incorrect article counts, or rather I ignore them.

I remember seeing the incorrect article counts a number of years ago,
but I got used to it.

I wish that I could get used to the problem where the "List Font" for
"Subject Windows" will occasionally display using the wrong font.

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 >> Stay informed about: MTNW and unread counts 

In article ,
Lewis wrote:

> In article ,
> "P. Sture" wrote:
>
> > In article ,
> > Lewis wrote:
> >
> > > I have MTNW set to show killed threads, and yet when I see the unread
> > > count in the group list, and then open the group, the count drops by
> > > some number.
> > >
> > > For example, there were 5 messages in csmm and when I opened the group
> > > there were only 2 messages. 32 messages in csms, but only 23 when I
> > > actually opened the group.
> > >
> > > And I am seeing the killed messages.
> >
> > But aren't the killed messages already marked as read? They are here.
>
> Yes, they are marked as read, but in the specific example I gave there
> were 5 messages in csmm, but only 2 when I opened the group. Not of
> these were killed messages. Just the count is wrong.
>
> Turning on the slow article count seemed to alleviate this, but it is
> *very* slow, so I turned it off again. Now I just live with the
> incorrect article counts, or rather I ignore them.

Before downloading the headers in a group, the only thing a news client
can find out is the current lowest and highest article numbers in the
group. It subtracts these, and then subtracts all the ones already seen
or killed, to get the expected number of unread articles.

However, it's possible that articles in the middle of the range have
been deleted from the server. This happens if the server runs a spam
filter after storing the messages, when the server expires old messages,
or if some messages have been cancelled (assuming the server honors
cancel requests).

So, if the group's range is 100-200, and you've read or killed
everything through 150, it will initially say that there are 50 unread
messages. But if articles 170-180 were spam and have been deleted on
the server, you'll only see 39 messages when you open the group.

--
Barry Margolin, barmar RemoveThis @alum.mit.edu
Arlington, MA
*** PLEASE post questions in newsgroups, not directly to me ***
*** PLEASE don't copy me on replies, I'll read them in the group ***
 >> Stay informed about: MTNW and unread counts 

In article ,
Barry Margolin wrote:

> In article ,
> Lewis wrote:
>
> > In article ,
> > "P. Sture" wrote:
> >
> > > In article ,
> > > Lewis wrote:
> > >
> > > > I have MTNW set to show killed threads, and yet when I see the unread
> > > > count in the group list, and then open the group, the count drops by
> > > > some number.
> > > >
> > > > For example, there were 5 messages in csmm and when I opened the group
> > > > there were only 2 messages. 32 messages in csms, but only 23 when I
> > > > actually opened the group.
> > > >
> > > > And I am seeing the killed messages.
> > >
> > > But aren't the killed messages already marked as read? They are here.
> >
> > Yes, they are marked as read, but in the specific example I gave there
> > were 5 messages in csmm, but only 2 when I opened the group. Not of
> > these were killed messages. Just the count is wrong.
> >
> > Turning on the slow article count seemed to alleviate this, but it is
> > *very* slow, so I turned it off again. Now I just live with the
> > incorrect article counts, or rather I ignore them.
>
> Before downloading the headers in a group, the only thing a news client
> can find out is the current lowest and highest article numbers in the
> group. It subtracts these, and then subtracts all the ones already seen
> or killed, to get the expected number of unread articles.
>
> However, it's possible that articles in the middle of the range have
> been deleted from the server. This happens if the server runs a spam
> filter after storing the messages, when the server expires old messages,
> or if some messages have been cancelled (assuming the server honors
> cancel requests).
>
> So, if the group's range is 100-200, and you've read or killed
> everything through 150, it will initially say that there are 50 unread
> messages. But if articles 170-180 were spam and have been deleted on
> the server, you'll only see 39 messages when you open the group.

Another thing that will change the actual message count is cross-posted
messages. If messages were read in one group and are also in a group
that you open after, they will be removed when you open the 2nd group
and not be part of the unread count.
 >> Stay informed about: MTNW and unread counts 

In article ,
Blackjack Joe wrote:

> Another thing that will change the actual message count is cross-posted
> messages. If messages were read in one group and are also in a group
> that you open after, they will be removed when you open the 2nd group
> and not be part of the unread count.

In my experience, the 2nd group's unread count is decremented as soon as
I read the message in the first group.

--
Barry Margolin, barmar.TakeThisOut@alum.mit.edu
Arlington, MA
*** PLEASE don't copy me on replies, I'll read them in the group ***
 >> Stay informed about: MTNW and unread counts